I can’t believe I’m saying it, but Glenn Beck got this one right. Listen, we don’t all agree with Israel’s actions and the way they treat many Arabs in their own country. But we need to look at the bigger picture. While they might not be 110% ‘humane’ to some people’s standards, look at the other countries in the area.
Although, I greatly dislike making that type of comparison for a reason. We put Israel on a pedestal above other Middle Eastern countries because we know Israel can be better. What we really should be doing is comparing Israel to the U.S. If we are brothers and sisters, then we should have the same standards. We must look at ourselves before telling others what they are doing wrong. And when you look deep enough, you can see that a country the size of New Jersey has the same exact issues as the U.S. Which leads me to ask: Would you rather spend a week in Gaza or a night on the streets in Camden, NJ or watch a full episode of the Glenn Beck show?
P.S. That headline took me an hour to write. Not because I couldn’t figure out what I wanted to say, but it just hurt that much to say it.
Saul
03/30/2011
Typical Jews – accusing others of demonizing them when nobody is.
If Israel is so tough, can we please stop giving them billions of dollars a year to protect themselves from the evil Arabs?
The Duckman
03/30/2011
Your comment is riddled with so much irony, Id HAVE TO give it a gold star
Chicky
03/31/2011
Saul, why are you demonizing us and our blo– wait a second.
I’m onto your game. Touche sir. Touche.
IronyOnRye
03/30/2011
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
The Duckman
03/30/2011
I think his clock runs on Army time.
IronyOnRye
03/30/2011
well then, only once a day. actually, that makes me feel better.
Alex - Resident Goy Writer
03/31/2011
No, he’s still wrong. He’s right about Israel’s Democracy Index rating being the highest in the region, but he’s still wrong: Glenn Beck is presenting a false dichotomy here. The idea is that either you get strongmen willing to play ball with Israel in exchange for US Foreign Aid, or you get an Islamist state. That’s ridiculous. Beck’s analysis of the region is also riddled with flaws, such as the idea that Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood would be allies (they wouldn’t in the least).
I think opposing the spread of democracy is wrong. I think not actively supporting that spread is wrong. I think we’re doing right in Libya. I think, like Roger Cohen at the NYTimes does, that the Arabs will be free: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/opinion/29iht-edcohen29.html and that democracy does not harm. It is a deeply flawed system, one wherein the will of the people often has sway. And in the Middle East, the will is largely anti-Israel and anti-US.
But Beck also ignores some other facets of politics in his impassioned “defense” of Israel (although, again, I’d say it doesn’t need defending here). The fact is that sometimes (often) in democracies, people eat political realities they do not like. The one budget item the majority of American voters favor cutting is foreign aid, including that to Israel. Beck is a hypocrite here: he doesn’t “stand by Israel” if he backs his Tea Party supporters in that regard; he’d be cutting Israel off at the knees. But here’s another truth: America isn’t going to cut foreign aid to Israel (#1 receiver). And it’s not going to cut foreign aid to Egypt (#2 receiver), either. Because the fact is USD keeps those countries in line with our views, regardless of who is in charge, regardless of their Democracy Index level.
I mean, the whole fucking point of supporting the overthrow of the Middle East despots is so that the next time Beck wants to make a poorly-educated statement about the region, he’s got a whole list of countries where gays aren’t beaten, women can walk down the street, the press is free, etc.
The Duckman
03/31/2011
I think you believe in the healing power of democracy too much.
Alex - Resident Goy Writer
03/31/2011
Maybe. I don’t believe in democratic peace theory, if that’s what you’re suggesting, but I do believe democracies trend towards open societies.
The Duckman
03/31/2011
Democracy towards an open society. If people want it legal for women to be beaten to death for being alone in public, they can make it happen. But in all reality, you’re not going to get a democracy in these countries. You’re going to get more rigged elections and long civil wars.
Alex - Resident Goy Writer
03/31/2011
See, that’s something I don’t believe as a “facing of reality.” I had two really excellent professors for Mid-East politics, one an instructor at the US Army War College, and one an Israeli veteran of the Lebanon War, and both of them impressed one vital bit of information: the Middle East is almost totally unpredictable. It’s especially resistant to sweeping generalizations. Seven years ago, a lot of political scientists were saying that Arabs didn’t want democracy, and that democratic movements there were solely in the wet-dreams of the Bush Administration, that the region simply wasn’t prepared for it. And up till last year, I might very well have agreed with those people. Yet, here we are, with a great deal of well-educated, (largely) secular youth and older repressed minorities in those very same countries clamoring for democracy, or at least some democratic reform. That’s not to say that democratic movements can’t be co-opted by despots. 1979 Iran shows that’s a possibility, as does many a revolution. But not all countries are the same. Iranians (and here’s a nuance Beck doesn’t even understand) aren’t Arab, for one. Saying that the democratic movements are destined for corruption is foolish. They’re only destined for that if two things happen: 1) Democratic forces in those countries do not maintain momentum, and 2) the world doesn’t pressure those countries to maintain that momentum. If we throw up our hands and say “The Arabs are lost to democracy,” then I think we create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, I would rather have countries that are socially conservative and governed by democratic movements than socially conservative and governed by dictators. At least the former has the ability to change.
The Duckman
04/01/2011
Here is the question I pose to you. What system of government is perfect? Do any of them have issues? We sit here and rant about the radical right and the tea party. What if they controlled the system of government instead of just influencing it? What if you take an entire country where the majority is of radical beliefs (in our opinions). The people believe the right thing to do is stone a woman for walking down the street alone. Or that a woman can’t get an abortion after being raped because she “asked for it” or might be faking a rape claim. Yes, Democracy is a step in the right direction, but that doesn’t mean that all democratic states do well for humanitarian purposes. And many lead to rigged elections and unfair rulers. Will they have term limits? Will they be allowed to override term limits like the mayor of NY? There are too many complexities and variables in an unstable region that might cause the countries mentioned to relapse into a similar governing style.
Alex - Resident Goy Writer
04/01/2011
Well, the answer your question, I’m going to quote Churchill: “No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
Let’s get this straight: It’s a mistake to say that all, or even the majority, of Egyptians, or Iranians, or Saudis favor the laws that Beck and you are talking about. Those countries don’t make law by popular referendum. They don’t make laws by the will of freely elected representatives. They make laws based around what the top tier of their self-appointed governments feels like. You and Beck can point out that only Israel has extensive civil rights laws, but that’s not, I’d say, a matter of culture or religion. I’d say that’s because they have the strongest democracy in the region: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index.
Like I said, you’re right, the democratic movements might easily be co-opted by violent, aggressively conservative forces that would clamp down on democratic reforms. But if that happens in the Middle East, you know what? Then we’d be right back to where we started. But if that doesn’t happen, then I DO trust democracy to lead countries towards secular, progressive reforms. Freedom begets freedom. The whole Western world can observe that in their history. It wasn’t too long ago that women who accused men in the United States of raped were accused in turn of “asking for it.” It wasn’t too long ago that gays were beaten or killed by straight people, here in the United States. And that was after 200 years of Democracy. Except for Israel, Turkey, and Lebanon, no Middle Eastern country has ever experienced a honest to gosh secular democracy. But at least two (Tunisia and Egypt) are trying to build one. Maybe they’ll mess up. But I’m not going to begrudge them trying. I’m going to support them.
Because I don’t think that we, as Americans, as the champions of democracy, should say “well, you know, your cultural values don’t align with ours, so we don’t think you should have democracy. We’re only going to support democracies in countries that we think are willing to openly embrace American culture, as it stands now (not as it was 20-40 years ago).” We can do both. We can have a democratic Israel, with a DI of 7.48 (which is still a Flawed Democracy, by the way) and have a democratic Egypt, or Libya, or Tunisia, with ratings of 5.75 (Hybrid Regime) or whatever. They’ll change for the better. The world is becoming freer. But you can’t get there when you have dictators (no matter how friendly they are towards the West or Israel) stepping on their peoples’ necks. It takes a lot longer to reform a society like that.
To close, I’m going to quote from Dr. MLK, Jr. “Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.”
The Duckman
04/01/2011
You’re putting words and ideas into my mouth and forgetting what I actually wrote to make points that make you seem greater and align me with Beck.
Max Elstein Keisler
03/31/2011
Beck is not, I repeat, NOT down with jews….I covered this for new voices, there’s a history.
http://blog.newvoices.org/?p=6950
Obviously there’s realpolitik, but someone who keeps saying stuff like he does, when are we going to stop taking his apologies?
The Duckman
03/31/2011
He might not love Jews, but he hates Muslims more
JIDF
08/17/2011
I didn’t read all the comments and can’t stomach Beck enough to watch the video. However, Glenn Beck is a fraud. An antisemite. A nutcase. And total scum.
Please see our piece, Glenn Beck Hates Jews.
Thanks!
Charles
08/17/2011
We actually dislike the character that plays Beck on tv (minus his often hilarious crying tantrums. Makes for great tv)
http://hipsterjew.com/tag/glenn-beck/page/2/